Sharansky: Disengagement Is An Illusion

Special Interview With Former Refusenik

David Parsons, International Christian Embassy Jerusalem
June 3, 2004

JERUSALEM -- Rumors swirled this week that Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon was ready to replace cabinet minister Natan Sharansky, the noted Soviet Jewish dissident, with another Likud MK to ensure that a majority of his cabinet backed his disengagement plan from the Gaza Strip in a crucial vote this coming Sunday.

Last week, ICEJ NEWS spoke with Minister Sharansky about his relationship with the prime minister in light of his opposition to disengagement, along with several other topics. Following are excerpts from that interview.

ICEJ NEWS: The hot topic right now is Prime Minister Sharon’s disengagement plan. Events in Gaza since the Likud referendum have turned rather bloody. Has this swayed your position against disengagement in any way? Has it swayed Israeli opinion in any way?

SHARANSKY: Of course every tragic turn or another, another terrorist attack or another loss of one of our soldiers or even a whole family, brings back the passionate debate in Israel. But what has to be understood is that the debate in Israel is not between those who are not ready to make any concessions to the Palestinians and those who want to make concessions. In fact, Israel as a whole has proven again and again that for real peace we are prepared to make extreme sacrifices. The problem is we have reached a condition where we have no partner for peace. Today we see we have no partner in the Palestinian Authority. They have not done anything to cooperate with us in the struggle against terrorism. To the contrary in fact, again and again we see that they view terror as one of the tools for pressing us. And the frustration is that there is no partner for negotiations. So, what is the way out of

this?There are those who think in this case that we have to make one-sided steps, concessions such as dismantling Jewish settlements. And there are those who like myself believe that one-sided concessions -- giving territory, dismantling settlements -- are only encouraging terror. Our efforts have to be to encourage the real Palestinian partners who are concerned about the situation of their people and are not just out to destroy us; who want to take them from the refugee camps; who want to give them a real education and not education for hatred. And that is very difficult and very challenging, how to encourage this type of leadership? But as long as we don’t have such a partner, I believe one-sided concessions are very dangerous and they all will be turned against us.

As for the battles in Gaza of recent days, they did not take place because we have settlements in Gush Katif. These battles were because there are Qassam rockets launched at our cities, at Ashkelon, Sderot, many others. And it was because from the border with Egypt via tunnels there is constantly sent fuel for this terrorist activity -- the weapons. And whether we will be in Gush Katif or not, we will have to go into Gaza to stop them from launching the missiles or stop the smuggling of weapons. So we would have to do it anyway.

ICEJ NEWS: Do you think Israel should have confronted Egypt about the smuggling tunnels before now?

SHARANSKY: No doubt, I believe the fact that Egypt has done nothing to stop the weapons smuggling, at a time when it is receiving so much American aid and is believed to be a serious partner for peace, when it has a peace agreement with us, this is something that has to be brought to the world’s attention.

ICEJ NEWS: Mr. Sharon brought you into the Likud and into this government, because he feels you are an important asset for this country and a voice of freedom and democracy. But here you are opposed to his unilateral withdrawal from Gaza. I know there were some Likud cabinet ministers who were being blamed for the defeat of the withdrawal referendum. How is your relationship with the prime minister - you are standing on principle and he respects that?

SHARANSKY: First, I respect our prime minister. He is an outstanding person, outstanding war commander. His victories in Israel’s battles were not only crucial for the survival of the Jewish people here, but were very important for our struggle in the Soviet Union. They gave us a lot of encouragement and inspiration. And I was sitting near our prime minister in the Netanyahu government when I first entered the Knesset, and I learned from him a lot about our culture, our history, our economy, and about love for our country. So I keep supporting him as the leader of our country and the Likud party.

I think that if the prime minister respects me, definitely he respects me knowing that my views do not depend... I am not linked to the chair [cabinet seat] in which I sit. And I hope he will have reason to continue to respect me for this.

ICEJ NEWS: Do you think Mr. Sharon was a little disappointed in you? I know he called you right after he did the exchange of letters on disengagement with US President George W. Bush. He really wanted you behind him on this.

SHARANSKY: Yes, he called me, and I said it was a very important letter he received from President Bush and I congratulated him on getting this letter. But I told him that my opposition to his plan was not connected to this letter, but was connected to this very principle of making one-sided concessions and the situation where we do not have a Palestinian partner. And to think that we are disengaging ourselves from the Palestinians, I don’t agree with this. I believe it is an illusion to think that we are disengaging ourselves from anything.

ICEJ NEWS: Up until 8-10 months ago, Mr. Sharon was opposed to negotiations or retreat under fire. What in your estimate are the factors that led to his new thinking? Is it the demographic problem? International pressure?

SHARANSKY: I think there is always a lot of desperation here. And he is desperate for an answer, as seen by the fact that now, so many years after the negotiations period, and after the Oslo agreements, and three years after this war of terror launched against us, after all our attempts and efforts, we don’t have anyone to talk to. It is that sort of desperation and the desire to find big solutions without being dependent on the other side. But I simply think we cannot do something like that.

ICEJ NEWS: As the recent disengagement debate heated up, some Christians were reportedly warning that if you leave Gaza, uproot Jews and abandon part of God’s land given to you, they would not support Israel any more. Some comments involved very sharp criticism of the Israeli government. What is the proper role for Christian supporters of Israel? How can we best be friends?

SHARANSKY: First of all, our Christian friends, I am sure they appreciate the unique moral struggle of Israel in this very difficult part of the world. We also believe in moral values and principles like you. Yet we are standing for these principles of human rights and democracy in the toughest place in the world.

As they see us in this difficult struggle, they have to give us credit that even if we are making some difficult decisions - to go to the left or to the right. Sometimes we can also develop certain attitudes that when some of us want to give certain concessions, the other half of Israel gets very upset. It is hard to deal with for all of us in Israel to make these decisions. But it is not a matter that there are "good Jews" and "bad Jews" here. It is a very difficult, unique struggle of a Jewish, democratic state against Arab/Islamic totalitarian regimes that want to destroy us. And there are no easy solutions. I wish there were. But if some of you are upset, there are many Israelis who are upset by every decision [laughter]. So we are in a very, very difficult struggle, at the forefront of a confrontation between the world of evil and the world of good, and we need all the support and comfort and love and solidarity of our friends.

ICEJ NEWS: I understand that the reunification of Jerusalem in the Six-Day War of 1967 helped spark your Zionism and the whole refusenik movement. And I just learned that the "Prague Spring" uprising against Soviet rule in 1968 also was inspired by this same war. The return of Jerusalem to Jewish hands was quite a watershed event, was it not?

SHARANSKY: For Jews all over the world, the Six-Day War and the reunification of Jerusalem had tremendous importance. For Jews who lived behind the Iron Curtain, and for many others behind the Iron Curtain, it had a double meaning. Because the Six-Day War was a war between Israel and totalitarian Arab regimes supported by Soviet weapons, supported by Soviet advisors from the Soviet army. And the Soviets, you remember, in advance were confident of a great victory. Israel, by defeating these awful regimes that were committed to the destruction of Israel, by defeating in fact the Soviet Empire, proved that one small, free, democratic nation can successfully fight against the allies of the Soviet Union.

Also for us, the Jews of the Soviet Union, it was the message of our reunification with our Jewish brothers in Israel. In the days after the war, you could see that the anti-Semites treated us with more respect, because power was respected in the Soviet Union. The jokes of the anti-Semites changed. Instead of jokes about cowardly, greedy Jews, there were jokes about brave Jews with "chutzpah." That was the message for us. It gave us pride. We are connected to Israel. Then we wanted to understand what that connection is. And so you can say that when Jerusalem was reunited, we were reunited with the Jewish people.

That is why I helped spearhead the rally for a united Jerusalem several years ago, which turned into the largest political rally in Israel’s history. And I continue to serve as chairman of One Jerusalem, an organization working to build worldwide support for a united Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.

David Parsons is the editor of the International Christian Embassy Jerusalem (ICEJ) News Service.